BEAST INFECTION
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- 24 November 2013
Im just saying lome, if the gather mods arent willing to do their job, whats going make people want to do this. The invite gather mods will last most likely a 1-2 maybe 3 weeks at longest before they give up and stop
That invite gather mod responsibilty is a lot more then people expect, especially if everything has to change, EVERY WEEK. thats just insane. Im all for a higher skilled gather but what your asking for, is way too much for a "volunteer"
Team Awesome
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It's probably better to try this out as this game seems to work best when it appeals to the highest level of players in comp mod so why not try it in gathers. At the very least, there will be some good gathers being played during the week. If it doesn't kill the normal gathers, this could be a win win.
I think the best case scenario is the high skill gathers fill a few times a week or a couple times a day, but at least some of those same players are still playing the normal gathers. There isn't enough people to have all the good players never play normal gathers anymore. Might as well see what happens. Now you just need to work on setting up the steam group and get the rules going/ownership worked out so this doesn't break down.
^Tico - it's not a lot of work to change a password every week (at least I don't think so), but it does require one of the admin to take ownership of it or assigned to it for that week. I don't think it can be just like, let's get to it sometime. If there are constant updates and the steam group is being constantly reviewed as much as the ensl website is, it could work. It just can't be left to total freedom/chaos.
BEAST INFECTION
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- 24 November 2013
**USING THE GATHER PAGE**
"Competitive Gather"
-gather is whitelisted to all competitive players that are on active div 1-2 teams
-players that used to be on past div 1-2 teams will also be able to join. For example past player such as virsoul would be able to join.
-there could also be a request to join for div 3 and players that arent already on a team. And the request to join will prompt a vote for the players that are in the gather to be able to vote the player that is requesting to join in or out
"Casual Gather"
-whitelisted to div 3 players and players that arent currently on a team.
Thats how i would do this OR a setup that is similiar to this. Setting up a fucking steam group and have 3 people rotate who is in it is just stupid.
IMO the people who shoot poorly aren't even the biggest problem plaguing gathers nowadays. A good team can work around a bad shot, it's hard, but possible. The worst part of the gathers I've played recently are the commanders. The majority of gathers I've played recently have had commanders that are slow to react on everything, stay in the hive doing nothing, can not land medpacks at all, and some even go so far as completely disregarding and arguing with far more experienced players on what the right thing to do is. One of the worst offenders is a certain div 3 team's main commander atm. So most gathers are "do we have this person who can shoot decently, and is a good commander comm, but have less killing power as a team?" or "do we have this person who cant shoot, doesn't coordinate on the field, but knows how to push buttons command?" Either way your team is at a huge disadvantage because of 1-2 people on your team.
Team Awesome
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^Star - I'm sure that is a problem, but that is a lot of the time in NS2. Not having enough good commanders around has been a problem for awhile if not always.
Team Awesome
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I think the more exclusive you make the high skill gather, the better. It needs to not upset people playing in that gather, and it also has to allow the normal gathers to still have people that normally play it. So just limit it to only div 1 players past and present. All current div 1 players automatically get their accounts unlocked, past players can post something or send a pm to be added. Don't allow invites of lower than div 1 current/past players or really limit the invite system. I think the invite system leads to a special club idea. At least if it's limited to div 1 players only, there's a valid reason why all those people are in the gather.
If that means it's harder to get a high skill gather filled, that's fine. That means the normal gathers still are getting filled and high skill gathers will be played when there is enough div 1 players around. Maybe they will pick a few nights a week or something when the high skill gathers are played.
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- 14 August 2014
What about a simple addition to the idea of Div1/High skill gathers.
Let current Div1 players join it and have a ready room where ?everyone? can join and with few votes from players already in the gather they would be moved into it.
Snoofed
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lets keep this discussion to div1 + invite. i think opening the up to all of div2 will face the same problems people did in the normal gathers
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- 24 June 2012
We all have to agree on what we want before anything can be done.
You guys want an automated system to determine whether players have been in div1/div2. That cannot happen. Want to know why?
So I can make an algorithm that checks a player's team history. For every team, if that team was EVER registered in an NSL contest labeled div1, they are good.
What about seasons when div 1 was actually premiere? Do I let premiere AND div 1? Was being in div1 in season 1 the same as being in div 1 now? What about div 2? Those things aren't the same anymore, that's for sure. Looks like this will require MANUAL maintenance, because every season we redefine what it means to be in a division, and everyone's skill evolves.
Wow, this is getting complicated now isn't it. I thought this was a relatively simple implementation? It gets better!
What about teams that used to be div4? They would have had some REALLY bad players on their team for a while. But that team has undergone roster changes and gotten better. Now they're in div 1, well guess what, their entire roster history is now eligible for div1 gathers!!! Because there is no EASY way to cross reference past players with the dates they joined/left the team with the dates a team was in div1.
Don't even get me started on the amount of troll options this opens up for @BauerJankins.
src: I have worked on the ensl website. I have seen the database, I am familiar with the API's. I am also a software developer, and I know this is no trivial task.
Team Awesome
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^Simba - I agree with you if you wanted to accurately look into who was on a div 1 team in the past, it could be difficult to do that automatically. I think that's making it more complicated though. Why not have everyone's account that is currently active on a div 1 roster added to the accepted div 1 gather list. Past players for prem or div 1 can just submit a request to admins to allow their account to be added.
I guess people could lie, but I would think the admins would know most of the prior prem and div 1 players. I doubt it's going to be hundreds of people requesting this. I guess someone could decide if div 1 at a certain time really was div 1 of today...some admin could decide on this, but I think overall this would be close to giving people their high skill gather.
I just think an invite idea leads itself to a special club mentality and it's going to be friends of people. At least this is a criteria that will work for most scenarios. It gets rid of the recent players that are hurting gathers for high skill players.
SpookerZ
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It's only complicated if you don't just do exactly as phone said, take current div1, allow them all and invite others. If someone gets invited they're allowed to join in the future.
That way you don't have to go through shit tons of old teams at all. It doesn't need to be so complex for div1 to play "highskill" gathers together.
Team Awesome
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Crazy's idea is simple which makes sense, but I still think the invite system could make for an elitist type of mentality in the ns2 gather community. Also, are people going to actually invite people that are at div 1 skill level and not just people they want to play with?
How do you know people won't get desperate when they are at 10 players and start inviting people they shouldn't be? It's still going to add a us vs them type of community, but if you're going to do invites - at least have some admin or someone look over the request so there is a certain level of play standard required. Otherwise people might as well just make their own gathers.
The reason you need a standard is because if you have 2 players for example. Player A is in the high skill gathers because he/she was invited. Player B is just as good as player A but isn't friends with the right people or isn't liked. Player B sits in the lower skill gathers and hopefully doesn't care. This is going to, in my opinion, create a very strange environment for a league website to be promoting. If you have the standard, it still creates a division of the community which isn't perfect, but at least the players understand they aren't good enough. It's just like not being on a division 1 team, it isn't happening at this time for certain players because of their skill. A lot easier to take in than not being in the right crowd. I still think this could have problems either way, but at least having a standard makes more sense for a league website to me.
tokyo drifters
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I wouldn't worry about somebody good not being invited because they don't know somebody. If they're good, they'll be invited in a fairly short time because there won't always be 12 div1 players available to play at all times.
Potent
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Seems to me there are a lot of people being affected by only a few sub par players. While I think more people should have the opportunity to gather, these certain few are preventing anybody from gathering. So bare in mind that this is the opinion of a very middle of the road player who doesn't expect to play in high skill gathers as they're currently proposed, but I'm also not sensitive.
So what if the casual gather is replaced with high skill gather with the big difference being that there's an added vote feature. Just like there's the option to vote to regather, what about an option to vote to remove a player from the high skill lobby and just move them to regular lobby? This way it takes the tediousness of inviting out but still lets a majority rule kind of thing to police potential problem players out. Is abuse a likelihood? Maybe, but let abusers be handed out gather bans as per usual.
Maybe a vote remove player option is added to regular gathers too but maybe something like 8 votes are required in normal gather whereas maybe just 4 required in high skill gather.
I'm sure I haven't elaborated as I'd like but posting from my phone is a huge pain.
