BEAST INFECTION
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Div 2 is going to have 2 finals. Theres going to be an upper bracket final and a lower bracket final. 1st and 2nd of both div 2a and 2b will play in the upper bracket. 3rd and 4th of 2a and 2b will be in the lower bracket.
I originally decided to keep this secret because i didnt want teams to be throwing games on purpose so they could get into the lower bracket final. I realize now i shouldnt have.
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Why wasn't there a div2 and div3 in the first place then?
Exactly. Why isnt there 3 divs?
It doesnt make any sense to me. As it is for now, the best four div2 teams are fighting for the badge and teams from rank 5-8 are also fighting for one badge.
Further more, I have the feeling that we'll be having lot's of unfair, boring matches due to the high skill differences for some teams.
In my opinion it should look like this:
Div2:
- HBZ
- iSay
- Horror Show
- Combat Instinct
- Like a Clove
- VD
- Close One 101
Div3:
- ATV
- pubstars#1
- pubstars#2
- The Expandables
I know that 4 is a small amount for 1 division, but on the other hand they could play more matches and surely have more fun during that time.
For The Lolz
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3 divisions is a good idea, I say
But the divisions should at least attempt to have the same number of teams.
We have what? 16 teams. so div 1 = 5 teams, div 2 = 6 teams and div 3 = 5 teams.
(although I will agree with crowbar about the teams skill difference being pretty huge in some cases... eg. horror show and atv being in the same group?.. with the current line up, you are setting up 2 - 4 teams to only experience stomp rounds, when they could be placed against people of a similar skill level and have relatively balanced ones.
"I say" this as a team that will likely be one of those doing the stomping to the lower skilled teams, it is no fun to stomp and no fun to be stomped... there is potential to avoid this with 3 divisions... stomping will only make some people not want to play anymore, so we will lose members of the comp community because of it.
If you want to see the comp scene continue to grow and get back to a good size eventually, you need to avoid having any team be stomped.)
"Out with the gorge, into the ready room" F4 - iSay
Horror Show
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[sarcasm]Prommah will rekt whole the 3rd division and take badge with no resistance.[/sarcasm]
I'm not sure your suggestion provides more Great Justice in to that season, crowbar. So since disposition was already announced there is no much sense to rework everything.
Seriously, we do not know exactly what skills some teams can present.
Battle.net: CRaZyCAT #222106
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As the newcomer who will probably get stomped with his team that has not even had one test game yet, I think I'll still prefer the layout Tico suggests over a Div 3 split-off.
Yes, there is a chance that a number of stomps in a row will be that demoralizing that members of my team fold, but I'd still take that risk in order to get the chance to play more matches / teams, maybe even pull off some surprise victories, who knows (yes I am a delusional optimist ^^).
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There is a good chance that I won't be able to field 6 for pubstar #2 and have to fold that team, so that would make a Div 3 look like this at best:
Div2:
- HBZ
- Horror Show
- Combat Instinct
- VD
- Close One 101
Div3:
- ATV
- pubstars
- The Expandables
(- iSay)
(- Like a Clove)
The last two teams are kinda wildcards for me in terms of skill, so this is a very optimistic assumption that they are not way too high skill for Div 3.
For The Lolz
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iSay are not div 3.
We would be much happier in div 2.
"Out with the gorge, into the ready room" F4 - iSay
BEAST INFECTION
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Well dont worry because nothing is being changed except maybe map rotations.
Hello
Runder... expendables... happy to be here.
First and foremost, we'll be having the most fun. So there... Dont need a badge to tell it to the world 'cause we got each other. #makepizza-notwar
Doesn't matter to me which way it goes. The lower bracket will finalize in the div 3 pool and then we div 3 groups can show each other what we learned while being stomped on.
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We had some discussion in the comment thread of ATV vs iSay about an unfair setup of the match-ups in DIV 2.
Tl;dr so far: Div 2 teams play every team in their sub-bracket once, but then additionally two teams a second time. If you as a team are lucky to have "drawn" weaker teams to play two matches against, you gain an advantage over the other teams which has nothing to do with the team skill.
You see things like Combat Instinct playing Expandables twice, iSay playing ATV twice, which is far from optimal in my opinion.
I propose one of two solutions:
A. cancel the second encounters
Yes, less matches would be played, but me personally would rather play less and feel we win / lose due to skill and not setup.
B. Determine the 2nd encounters after all the first encounters have been played / team strengths are clear.
For example: After all the first encounters Teams are ranked A>B>C>D>E. You let the 2nd encounters be: A vs B, A vs C, E vs D, E vs C, D vs B . This setup disadvantages team D in favor of team B, but that is the best setup I could think of. I think it beats a random setup like we seem to have at the moment.
By the way thanks Tico for dealing with all this. I know the NS2 community can be very taxing. I appreciate your work.
BEAST INFECTION
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Ok that is fine i can easily add the matches to even it out. Just know that season will be extended and prob wont end till the start of february.
And these matches prob wont be added to the season for a few days. But thats fine because they wont be scheduled until the current ones scheduled.
The only other option that we have is, to do what Keen said which is to just remove the 2nd matches.
Snoofed
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feb?? is that how long seasons usually last
BEAST INFECTION
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No and it will last that long because it will be forced to go through christmas break with season still going.
Horror Show
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You can wait closer to the end of group stage and then decide if you need to add matches in case of it can create advantage/disadvantage. Realy that can matter only for 2nd and 3rd place teams so there will be advantage in case of 2nd team have 4 points o less higher and played ATV twice. Otherwise this situation doesn't matter because playoffs will show who is stronger NOT gruop stage (so that is not a puprose of group stage tbh).
Battle.net: CRaZyCAT #222106
Horror Show
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Yeah i know scores split can be like 12-10-8-7 but my idea is still same
Battle.net: CRaZyCAT #222106
For The Lolz
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Here is a middle ground for everyone to hopefully agree on.
- Have every team play each other once.
- when all of those rounds are played, have team 2 and 3 play each other and team 4 and 5 play each other to see who is going into the separate brackets for the badges. e.g if team 2 and 3 play, and team 3 wins, team 3 go into the higher skill semi-finals, and team 2 would be put into the lower skill semi-finals. (team 1 in the group phase having an automatic pass through to the semi finals due to high performance in the group phase)
- ????
- profit.
I just want to add that I do respect and appreciate all of the work Tico has put into this season so far, I'm just trying to help make it more fair for everyone involved.
"Out with the gorge, into the ready room" F4 - iSay
BEAST INFECTION
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The problem with making it only every team plays each other once is that you only get 4 matches. I think waiting like crazycat suggested is the best idea. Because that way we can figure out if teams actually improved to get the amount of points they earned. And not have earned them just because you played ATV more.
Because if you what you say is true, kash, and iSay has really become the better team then HBZ, then your points will show that if and when you subtract all your points earned from ATV they should still be higher then HBZ. And then youll be put into upper bracket with the next best team. And HBZ will either be dropped to the lower bracket because they didnt play well enough or Horror Show.
BEAST INFECTION
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I could add just the average points earned from the games that teams played ATV twice. And then just add it to the teams that didnt. So lets iSay earned 4 points in the second game and if they are the only team to play ATV twice. I can just add 4 points to HBZ LAG and Horror Show. And that would even everything out.
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It is better to play only 4 matches than to have a non competitive league System. Also there is still playsoffs to play after that. You can also add a game by doing Kashs proposal.
But you cannot do another System for Group stage than each team plays each team the same amount of time. And when playing every team two times would mean prolonging the season to february, then I dont really see another FAIR option than to only play 4 Group stage matches.
