Hello!

There has been a lot of discussion generated recently on the topic of Comp Mod, so we've decided to lock the old thread and open up a new one. With the recent news update on Season 7 it is also prudent that we begin to organize a more concise approach to potentially making changes to our beloved Comp Mod.

Combining the ideas and changes discussed on the forums and the Slack channel, Kash and I compiled all of them into one public document we're calling the Comp Mod Ideas Database. Additionally, what we have done is organized the ideas into three categories: Green, Yellow, and Red.

Green Ideas - High Potential - the most thought out and developed ideas and changes. They may not be perfect, but they are changes we think have best potential to be implemented into Comp Mod. It is important to note that this DOES NOT mean that they are definitely going to be implemented

Yellow Ideas - Has Some Potential/Needs Work - have some potential, but currently need significant rethinking to work. If you can think of ways to improve them please let us know!

Red Ideas - Very Low/No Potential - require serious work and are not very well thought out or balanced. These ideas have the lowest priority and potential but may offer some interesting concepts in the future. There's some bad ideas here folks, but there might be some clever ideas, so I decided to leave them in. The really bad ideas have been struck out if you were wondering what that means.

Now, what we'd like everyone to help us with is to develop these ideas, specifically the green and yellow ideas. You'll notice that sometimes I've included multiple ideas under one title like "LMG Spread" and "Grenades." These are separate ideas, not just one big idea. For example: we think the GL needs a balancing change because it feels too easy to kill lerks and does very high structure damage (about 4% of a fully matured hive in 1 grenade). Should we only reduce the projectile size? Should we look at lowering the base damage as well? Or should focus on the structure damage multiplier only? Or a combination of these ideas? As always, please leave constructive criticism only (explanations & reasoning) - not just "that is dumb." Try to be specific with your feedback (EX: I don't like the Yellow Idea #5 for Aliens about Webs because Marines should never be fully immobilized even for half a second. It's too strong). Also be aware that we have some ideas for the same skill under different categories. Look at Fade Stab for example. We have a Green Idea/Yellow Ideas/Red Ideas. The green idea is basically just a small change that wont make Stab any more viable in comp, but doesn't throw off balance at all so why not implement it? I think we'd be better off developing our yellow ideas personally.

Also, feel free to post new ideas here as well, though I can't guarantee it will be added to the document.

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At this point we do not have an actual "Comp Mod Team." Creating this document was the first step in the process. I will begin trying to put together a more formal team in the coming week. I'm looking for people that have experience with Comp Mod/balance first and foremost. I also want people that actively still play the game competitively (not to lessen wise words from retired players though) and have a good technical understanding of how NS2 works. If you think you might be qualified and want to help out please contact me directly.

With Season 7 set to begin in about a month, we have to get moving quickly to make something happen.

Thank you for your feedback!

Cmon nerf GL more and more so nobody won't use it at all. Make GL like FT it's the most required change for us now.

Just as an idea. Try to point out what is wrong in the current gameplay / balance and *then* work out ideas how to address those issues. These ideas seem kinda random and all out of context. Every change will affect the whole game and might render the whole current meta obsolete, even if it's just a minor change.

As a general good-to-go

1) Do not try to make every tech/lifeform/weapon choice equally valid. Examples: Battlecruisers and nukes are rarely seen in comp SC2 and it's a good thing. It is *not* a flaw when you always use LMGs or SGs, in CS I am always fine with my M4/AK when I have money. Flamethrowers/GLs/Exos *can* be just fine if they are only rarely used. I always felt sorry for all the pubbers who wanted webs available earlier on; this was a game-ender feature (like xeno/acid) in NS1 - in a balanced game state webs are vastly more frustrating for jetpacks than any onos devour could be.
2) Identify OP strats. If there is an opening which is bad to counter even if you know about it; or leaves you crippled because you are forced to respond in a heavy way every game just because the chance of it; it will the affect meta in a bad way. Then it's a good idea to address it. Try to find the *smallest possible change* to render the over-effectiveness nil while still keeping it an option on the table.
3) The approach of last balance team was to identify dull gameplay with very little or boring metagaming. (Remember the 5-fade explosion after 250?) Rantology tried to extend possible ways to play the game and keep it balanced for both high and lower skilled ceilings. Obviously, you start testing balance from high skill and check if it translates to lower skill ceilings as well. But never vice versa. The reasons should be obvious. Again, this includes thinking in very small changes in a simple feat, resource cost or tech tree requirements, since the smallest buff/nerf can have great impact already over a longer time period. This also comes closest to your current approach I think; but the ideas (categorized as green/yellow/red) still seem random without any explanation what the bigger idea behind the meta should be.

To put this in an explanatory context:

*Why* do you want to change the GL? Do you want to reduce PvE gameplay and try to advertise the GL as a valid option? Do you want to change the combat style of 2-3 marine pressure squads when you advertise the GL also as a PvP weapon? Do you want fades to play more carefully when hitting/running with random nades killing a 50res lifeform? If it is PvE you want to address, are there other or better ways to address the issue? Change the res flow for the alien commander or force him to use his res otherwise? Will this take balance changes that early lifeforms have better chances in fights since Gorge tunnel forts with PvE are obsolete then? The list goes on and on....

Basically, the changes might be good or not; for that I am the most wrong person to ask; but I just miss the *reasoning* behind those ideas. And the whole gameplan / thought process behind every idea.

blind says

*Why* do you want to change the GL?.

Hi Blind! Please take a look at the GL thread because I posted a reply (after you posted this) which should help answer this question. I think it would be disruptive to the process if I were to copy/paste those ideas here and split the conversation over two threads.

http://www.ensl.org/topics/1513

I don't think gl needs a nerf tbh, do you?

BauerJankins says

I don't think gl needs a nerf tbh, do you?

Only individual players should be nerfed. Like you, Bauer.

BauerJankins says

I don't think gl needs a nerf tbh, do you?

Only individual players should be nerfed. Like you, Bauer.

Locked please continue discussions on Comp Mod Discussion Forums