17 January 2016 - 02:01 EET
Do it yourself or Download it yourself?
Your fav field player was complicit in cheating in order to win the s7 finals. You can insult me all you want. At least I'm not a cheater!
Simple’s discharge from the NSL & NS2
Do it yourself or Download it yourself?
Your fav field player was complicit in cheating in order to win the s7 finals. You can insult me all you want. At least I'm not a cheater!
17 January 2016 - 02:04 EET
Basically this.
Don't even know why a rematch is even in the realm of possibility. If he's deemed to be cheating, banned for it, and admitted to cheating within a certain time frame, matches played and titles won within that time frame should be forfeited/overturned. The logic in not taking that action makes no sense...
But I also wouldn't be surprised. Actions in the NSL were often dictated positively or negatively by community sentiment towards players, teams, and/or region.... and heavily influenced by popular or "elite" players.
I hope as the admins are discussing this that admin players involved in any of the teams involved also have enough sense to recuse themselves from the discussions. Good luck, Yaluzan.
www.twitch.tv/Zefram0911
17 January 2016 - 02:06 EET
Because Spring said he knew that Simple was a cheater and Lambo is actively trying to defend a cheater (aka "no proof he cheated in the final"). Maybe they should take exemple on how HBZ reacted.
17 January 2016 - 02:11 EET
To say he did not cheat in the finals given the current evidence is not an assumption, but all we know.*
To say he did cheat in the finals is an assumption.
FTFY
17 January 2016 - 02:11 EET
you're pathetic.
I said there's no proof that he cheated, because there's no proof.
that does not fall under defending a cheater.
17 January 2016 - 02:14 EET
nah, said 100% SURE (SURE IN MY MIND) , but that's too hard to grasp, isn't it.
17 January 2016 - 02:14 EET
Holy shit boys it's the titus club.
Lamb has his opinion it's fine, he didn't create the team.
The only questionable thing here is you speaking solely about one match when you would have to overtune every single match he played then.
Lamb has his opinion it's fine, he didn't create the team.
The only questionable thing here is you speaking solely about one match when you would have to overtune every single match he played then.
17 January 2016 - 02:16 EET
can we not get personal aka "pathetic" and "too hard to grasp" that would be great.
doesnt add to anything
doesnt add to anything
17 January 2016 - 02:17 EET
Holy shit boys it's the download it yourself club.
Zefram has his opinion it's fine, he didn't create the rules.
The only questionable thing here is you speaking solely about one match when you would have to overtune every single match he played then.
Now googletranslate plz I know you and your cheat-friendly fav field player got a beef with us but let it go man. It's all cool.
Zefram has his opinion it's fine, he didn't create the rules.
The only questionable thing here is you speaking solely about one match when you would have to overtune every single match he played then.
Now googletranslate plz I know you and your cheat-friendly fav field player got a beef with us but let it go man. It's all cool.
17 January 2016 - 02:17 EET
Umm I feel like there is some misinformation here. First of all, this is me speaking as a player.
Early in the season my team talked to Yaluzan and said we thought he cheats - specifically aimbotting. We were even told by his teammates that they were very suspicious of him and some of them thought he may have cheated in our regular season match on Biodome. He would often outshoot D/Y at 35% in PCW we played with him. We were told that there would be a ref spectating him in every match. During the Finals, there was no ref for some reason. I personally complained about this internally. As a result of this failure we wont have conclusive evidence on whether he cheated during the finals. All we have is Cr4zy's cast and Lambo's POV.
I talked to Simple today. Here are some of the logs (I edited some stuff out that went into the specifics of his cheats). So take that however you want. He does admit to using them on HBZ. He says he couldn't use them while playing D/Y (other than pistol script via his mouse software), and he was able to use them again some time in December.
So no, we can't prove that simple cheated during one particular match. We have proven he cheated recently. He has admitted to cheating in Season 6. He says he didn't cheat with D/Y. You can chose to believe either direction here.
This is an unfair statement. We did have people spectating him throughout the season, but for some unknown reason (that I was very mad about) he wasn't watched during the finals. We never had any conclusive evidence until a new tool was added (which initially was only given to a few people that weren't even on the NSL staff) which was when we were able to confirm and record recent footage.
Early in the season my team talked to Yaluzan and said we thought he cheats - specifically aimbotting. We were even told by his teammates that they were very suspicious of him and some of them thought he may have cheated in our regular season match on Biodome. He would often outshoot D/Y at 35% in PCW we played with him. We were told that there would be a ref spectating him in every match. During the Finals, there was no ref for some reason. I personally complained about this internally. As a result of this failure we wont have conclusive evidence on whether he cheated during the finals. All we have is Cr4zy's cast and Lambo's POV.
I talked to Simple today. Here are some of the logs (I edited some stuff out that went into the specifics of his cheats). So take that however you want. He does admit to using them on HBZ. He says he couldn't use them while playing D/Y (other than pistol script via his mouse software), and he was able to use them again some time in December.
So no, we can't prove that simple cheated during one particular match. We have proven he cheated recently. He has admitted to cheating in Season 6. He says he didn't cheat with D/Y. You can chose to believe either direction here.
This is an unfair statement. We did have people spectating him throughout the season, but for some unknown reason (that I was very mad about) he wasn't watched during the finals. We never had any conclusive evidence until a new tool was added (which initially was only given to a few people that weren't even on the NSL staff) which was when we were able to confirm and record recent footage.
17 January 2016 - 02:20 EET
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m148vZDwJA
the good ol' days the good ol' days
the good ol' days the good ol' days
17 January 2016 - 02:27 EET
@Spring did you edit your lua so you could multipost easier?
17 January 2016 - 02:30 EET
proof or it didn't happen.
17 January 2016 - 02:31 EET
@admins can we clean up all the troll posts and respond to my question?
Sorry it took 5 mins to remove 8 posts - Admin loMe
17 January 2016 - 02:32 EET
mate, this doesn't even have anything to do with you, I'm sorry.
But you're not getting a reply out of me
17 January 2016 - 02:40 EET
I'm part of the community and you guys are shitting on all of us by defending a cheater after you knowingly used him in an official match. All trolling aside, accept responsibility, apologize, and forfeit like any respectable player/team would.
17 January 2016 - 02:48 EET
To Spring "100% sure in my mind" : so you knew, you knew in your mind. Cause usually when you know something it's in your mind, you know....Just great to see that as a team leader you took a player cheating "100% IN YOUR MIND". What a great team leader isn't it
To Lambo : maybe it was a bit provocative but playing dumb won't lead you anywhere. Using the presumption of innocence for someone who cheated before and after this match is at best naive at worst mischievious. What are you trying to achieve by saying that ?
To Lambo : maybe it was a bit provocative but playing dumb won't lead you anywhere. Using the presumption of innocence for someone who cheated before and after this match is at best naive at worst mischievious. What are you trying to achieve by saying that ?
Kash
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17 January 2016 - 02:48 EET
Gotta say, I liked simple, but I 100% agree with this.
I'd also like to add that if you had suspicions that he was cheating and STILL fielded him intentionally... You should be ashamed of your actions and VERY grateful that you aren't being punished as well.
"Out with the gorge, into the ready room" F4 - iSay
Cr4zy
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17 January 2016 - 02:50 EET
Cheated in HBZ, cheated last month and this month. But didn't cheat during the rest of s7 because of a patch that didn't happen?
The people that have seen the videos (from the last months) must at least have enough understanding of this game to realise he's playing like a complete retard, we're talking pub level play, crosshair positioning, movement etc.
There is no way you go from playing at the Div1 level to playing that bad in less than a month, so even if he didn't cheat there's no way in hell he would have been good enough to play div1 with the play demonstrated from multiple games in the past months.
He just doesnt have the ability to play at that skill and it's so obvious in the videos, not talking about his kills or his wallhack/aimbot here, his actual field play, positioning and game sense is utterly hilarious in those videos.
17 January 2016 - 02:50 EET
hey friends let's calm down and take a look at the hall of fame for the next day and hope our HEAD admin makes the right decision...
http://www.ensl.org/articles/402
Oh and maybe take a look at the ban page too and see if people get punished for knowingly playing with a cheater (and defending him) huehue
http://www.ensl.org/articles/402
Oh and maybe take a look at the ban page too and see if people get punished for knowingly playing with a cheater (and defending him) huehue
http://i.imgur.com/hr1ud2u.png
17 January 2016 - 02:57 EET
nice edit, but all trolling aside,
Responsibility is already taken, I felt bad before finals even started after we heard Wob couldn't play.
If Chams had an issue with simple, and instead of contacting the admins (that didn't do anything) mentioned it to either me or Herakles, we would've done something about it (maybe even get someone else to play)
We told admins to pay attention to him.
As I even said on page 2, I have no issue of giving chams the win, but the admins can't do that without proof as it would be unfair to the other team.
Tinki, I was/am not a leader. I was very against getting him, honestly even told Herakles "I don't want him to play" but you can discuss that with the REAL leader.
Nice witch hunt, when the real witch is already caught.
17 January 2016 - 02:57 EET
Wow someone deleted our total 8dom8 of this salty guy just up there.
Let this stay forever in the annals of the ENSL that 2 Titus members care more about 1 match they have nothing to do with than lucky chams themselves.
I do believe chams is a great team (no trolling this time) and Simba literally saved us (when we had no comm for 2 months) and contributed to our stomp on the best team at the time: Titus.
So the least we can do out of respect for them is rule the match a NC.
Noone here is a sour pussy who would forfeit a game if they had to play it.
Oh wait.
| ]
Let this stay forever in the annals of the ENSL that 2 Titus members care more about 1 match they have nothing to do with than lucky chams themselves.
I do believe chams is a great team (no trolling this time) and Simba literally saved us (when we had no comm for 2 months) and contributed to our stomp on the best team at the time: Titus.
So the least we can do out of respect for them is rule the match a NC.
Noone here is a sour pussy who would forfeit a game if they had to play it.
Oh wait.
| ]
17 January 2016 - 03:00 EET
Ok I didn't know. Was refering to "so you could say we are the leaders".
17 January 2016 - 03:26 EET
Post removed.
Stop your flame war. -Admin loMe
plz don't downloa|] me, loMe :( -GORGEous
Stop your flame war. -Admin loMe
plz don't downloa|] me, loMe :( -GORGEous
17 January 2016 - 03:45 EET
@Gorgeous lol
Ok no trolling, as a conclusion so people don't get too stirred up etc...
Me, as d/y leader, do want that final to be a No Contest or even a loss if admins decide to.
But i'll be honest, did i think simple was cheating? Not totally, i had some suspicions but some of the plays he made were really lacking in awareness etc...
So as to the question "did Simple cheat during his time with us" I don't know, to me he felt weaker than my top field players.
When I got in div1 people constanlty told me I cheated when I trapped lifeforms, then people told me Daamz was wallhacking 100%, then people told me Spring was 100% aimbotting, I could go on and on....
I would have stopped if for the haters.
I still gave simple a chance when some players I trust declined to play the final.
Did I have fun playing with simple? Yes, like with any team mates, do I condemn what he did? yes of course.
If lucky chams had asked me to not make him play i wouldn't have.
I do apologize to lucky chams for my credulity.
See you in Cologne.
Ok no trolling, as a conclusion so people don't get too stirred up etc...
Me, as d/y leader, do want that final to be a No Contest or even a loss if admins decide to.
But i'll be honest, did i think simple was cheating? Not totally, i had some suspicions but some of the plays he made were really lacking in awareness etc...
So as to the question "did Simple cheat during his time with us" I don't know, to me he felt weaker than my top field players.
When I got in div1 people constanlty told me I cheated when I trapped lifeforms, then people told me Daamz was wallhacking 100%, then people told me Spring was 100% aimbotting, I could go on and on....
I would have stopped if for the haters.
I still gave simple a chance when some players I trust declined to play the final.
Did I have fun playing with simple? Yes, like with any team mates, do I condemn what he did? yes of course.
If lucky chams had asked me to not make him play i wouldn't have.
I do apologize to lucky chams for my credulity.
See you in Cologne.
17 January 2016 - 04:37 EET
I definitely understand the stance of the ENSL staff when it comes to rule-breaking; innocent until proven otherwise. And i respect the staff for keeping true to their rules. But I'd like to remind the staff that rules are formed arbitrarily and followed by subjective consent. Just because these rules were formed by official committee some time ago it doesn't necessarily mean that they must persist as carved in stone.
Anyhow, I'm not prone to losing my temper, nor to keep grudges. I doubt I've ever faced Simple during anything but gathers and thus have had no harm come to me due to his actions. I have absolutely no personal problems with him. But still, and i do feel a bit surprised with myself for being so blunt about this, when it comes to cheating in competitive gaming I'd stand on the side of the local a-bombs: once a cheater, always a cheater. Future *and* past, at least within the same game/community/tournament. Proof of past malpractice shouldn't enter into it. Cheaters deserve no rationalizing and no second chances. This is how it works in other feats of human endurance. A single occurrence of i.e. steroids takes all of your past accomplishments away, with or without the proof. And it should.
I feel that the staff/rules focus on the wrong end here. It's not the clinical technicality that is the truly disgusting issue here. It's the mind-set of the cheater. To even once decide to cheat shows this persons true character. It's a major crime in competition, showing total disrespect for everything that the ENSL is about. It doesn't matter when or how it happens. This person's entire gaming history is now permanently tainted because *he* has proven to be tainted. Contemporary rules shouldn't affect this universal truth. Once a cheater, *always* a cheater. That's the hard-core stance I wish the ENSL had, and perhaps the proper scare tactics it needs to reduce further cheating.
The worst part of all this is that it also affects all of his past team-mates, the people who trusted him. As terrible as it sounds, the only just way to deal with this is to wipe any match that Simple ever participated in from the books completely. There is no other way of doing this without rationalizing, and thus protecting the cheater rather than the ENSL. The unscathed prominence and respect for fair play in ENSL is far more important than the teams affected by his awful actions. The respect for ENSL will definitely plummet if the words of a cheater means more than the integrity of e-sport as a whole. Every division participated in by Simple will be too tainted to even justify keeping it in the records at all. A single cheater causes that much damage if kept in the records. This place will become nothing more than a mockery of competition unless this is dealt with. The history of ENSL participated in by Simple will no longer matter, as if those competitions never happened at all. That would be far worse than just removing the records of the matches he played in.
How this is done can of course vary. Some would say forfeiting (giving the other team an automatic win). But it would be overly gracious to hand the full 4 points over to the other team. The opposing teams should keep their score as is and measured against the other teams as regular, with team Simple being wiped, as said. All teams in the same division got to face Simple, after all. So whatever score that could have been achieved without Simple in those matches aren't just local incidents. The teams that faced him cannot have individual complaints, as the other teams got to face Simple too. Thus it does the least amount of harm to the other teams in the division to keep their scores as is and announcing new 1st, 2nd and 3rd place winners. This way it's only the team that Simple played in that truly is affected by his actions. I wish no harm on these people. But we have to remember that the real damage was done by Simple. And the actions that should be taken to fix this damage is very much necessary to keep ENSL afloat. I'm sure they'd agree that this is more important than clinging to the records of matches won with the help of a cheater. I'd agree to do the same thing if it was my team that had Simple. I wouldn't want my name on that black stain.
Anyhow, I'm not prone to losing my temper, nor to keep grudges. I doubt I've ever faced Simple during anything but gathers and thus have had no harm come to me due to his actions. I have absolutely no personal problems with him. But still, and i do feel a bit surprised with myself for being so blunt about this, when it comes to cheating in competitive gaming I'd stand on the side of the local a-bombs: once a cheater, always a cheater. Future *and* past, at least within the same game/community/tournament. Proof of past malpractice shouldn't enter into it. Cheaters deserve no rationalizing and no second chances. This is how it works in other feats of human endurance. A single occurrence of i.e. steroids takes all of your past accomplishments away, with or without the proof. And it should.
I feel that the staff/rules focus on the wrong end here. It's not the clinical technicality that is the truly disgusting issue here. It's the mind-set of the cheater. To even once decide to cheat shows this persons true character. It's a major crime in competition, showing total disrespect for everything that the ENSL is about. It doesn't matter when or how it happens. This person's entire gaming history is now permanently tainted because *he* has proven to be tainted. Contemporary rules shouldn't affect this universal truth. Once a cheater, *always* a cheater. That's the hard-core stance I wish the ENSL had, and perhaps the proper scare tactics it needs to reduce further cheating.
The worst part of all this is that it also affects all of his past team-mates, the people who trusted him. As terrible as it sounds, the only just way to deal with this is to wipe any match that Simple ever participated in from the books completely. There is no other way of doing this without rationalizing, and thus protecting the cheater rather than the ENSL. The unscathed prominence and respect for fair play in ENSL is far more important than the teams affected by his awful actions. The respect for ENSL will definitely plummet if the words of a cheater means more than the integrity of e-sport as a whole. Every division participated in by Simple will be too tainted to even justify keeping it in the records at all. A single cheater causes that much damage if kept in the records. This place will become nothing more than a mockery of competition unless this is dealt with. The history of ENSL participated in by Simple will no longer matter, as if those competitions never happened at all. That would be far worse than just removing the records of the matches he played in.
How this is done can of course vary. Some would say forfeiting (giving the other team an automatic win). But it would be overly gracious to hand the full 4 points over to the other team. The opposing teams should keep their score as is and measured against the other teams as regular, with team Simple being wiped, as said. All teams in the same division got to face Simple, after all. So whatever score that could have been achieved without Simple in those matches aren't just local incidents. The teams that faced him cannot have individual complaints, as the other teams got to face Simple too. Thus it does the least amount of harm to the other teams in the division to keep their scores as is and announcing new 1st, 2nd and 3rd place winners. This way it's only the team that Simple played in that truly is affected by his actions. I wish no harm on these people. But we have to remember that the real damage was done by Simple. And the actions that should be taken to fix this damage is very much necessary to keep ENSL afloat. I'm sure they'd agree that this is more important than clinging to the records of matches won with the help of a cheater. I'd agree to do the same thing if it was my team that had Simple. I wouldn't want my name on that black stain.
17 January 2016 - 04:51 EET
It's naive to believe that simple didn't cheat with DIY. He was, in my opinion, one of their strongest marine players in terms of aim and fragging and yet he made tactically and positionally poor decisions all the time on HBZ and DIY.
If there are twitch vods of any Gnarcolepsy Lite (mainly ADHD) player streams from either match vs HBZ during season 5 you could hear us talk about simple all the way back then. His gameplay hasn't changed at all since then and he openly admitted to cheating while on HBZ. This is pretty obvious to everyone except for a few DIY players.
Other than selfish reasons (being on DIY),there is no legitimate argument for not overturning the result of last season's finals.
If there are twitch vods of any Gnarcolepsy Lite (mainly ADHD) player streams from either match vs HBZ during season 5 you could hear us talk about simple all the way back then. His gameplay hasn't changed at all since then and he openly admitted to cheating while on HBZ. This is pretty obvious to everyone except for a few DIY players.
Other than selfish reasons (being on DIY),there is no legitimate argument for not overturning the result of last season's finals.
Prommah
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17 January 2016 - 05:25 EET
I guess I'm taking the admin hat off as well for this post, not that it matters really.
The suggestion that he was brought onto the team to prove his illegitimacy, but was then allowed to play in the finals.. Not pointing at anyone specifically because it's too late now, nothing is clear and everyone's enjoying their hindsight bias, but the reasoning that led to every part of that is laughable.
The demands for proof of cheating for the final itself have to stop. Do I personally believe he cheated in the finals? I've only seen that moment with the gorge (which some seem to point to as the most obvious proof) and if I had to judge from that alone, no. Watching that, my first thought was that it made no sense for him to act the way he did if he was cheating and knew the gorge was there all along. I looked again more closely and saw the two marines on the right side, with the marine in grav having to deal with at least one lerk. At that point it's pretty obvious he should've gone grav. It seemed like he realised that and went through shipping to keep the lane blocked. This is before I read any of the discussion about it. Also just to clarify, there was a patch one month before the finals.
But none of that matters. Does his word regarding this stuff mean anything? No. Does my opinion or anyone else's mean anything? No. He cheated before, he cheated after. You have to act as if he cheated in this match too. You can't cherry-pick the matches you care about the most and demand proof for them. When it's found out that an athlete has been doping, you don't assume all their prior achievements are legitimate until individually proven otherwise.
Fighting over the result to such a degree at this point just seems petty to be honest. There's no prize. It won't change anything. Personally I don't feel it matters enough to be worth changing now, but if it stops the flow of bullshit just change it to "No Contest".
The suggestion that he was brought onto the team to prove his illegitimacy, but was then allowed to play in the finals.. Not pointing at anyone specifically because it's too late now, nothing is clear and everyone's enjoying their hindsight bias, but the reasoning that led to every part of that is laughable.
The demands for proof of cheating for the final itself have to stop. Do I personally believe he cheated in the finals? I've only seen that moment with the gorge (which some seem to point to as the most obvious proof) and if I had to judge from that alone, no. Watching that, my first thought was that it made no sense for him to act the way he did if he was cheating and knew the gorge was there all along. I looked again more closely and saw the two marines on the right side, with the marine in grav having to deal with at least one lerk. At that point it's pretty obvious he should've gone grav. It seemed like he realised that and went through shipping to keep the lane blocked. This is before I read any of the discussion about it. Also just to clarify, there was a patch one month before the finals.
But none of that matters. Does his word regarding this stuff mean anything? No. Does my opinion or anyone else's mean anything? No. He cheated before, he cheated after. You have to act as if he cheated in this match too. You can't cherry-pick the matches you care about the most and demand proof for them. When it's found out that an athlete has been doping, you don't assume all their prior achievements are legitimate until individually proven otherwise.
Fighting over the result to such a degree at this point just seems petty to be honest. There's no prize. It won't change anything. Personally I don't feel it matters enough to be worth changing now, but if it stops the flow of bullshit just change it to "No Contest".
Cr4zy
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17 January 2016 - 06:48 EET
Just make it a no contest. There is no way to prove he cheated, everyone just knows he did because he's a twat.
But you can not prove without his cheats diy would have lost it he plays as retardedly as he does in the footage recorded he probably would have done something just as random without wh.
But you can not prove without his cheats diy would have lost it he plays as retardedly as he does in the footage recorded he probably would have done something just as random without wh.