Babblers should not be brought back.
Fades need a little bit more Sdamage.
Exos are too cheap making them easily rebought on 3 or 4 nodes. (35 res to be op against a fade 50res.)
That's the same total speed clamp. However, I think something weird is going on with Fades atm. They seem to be faster in combat instead of the same? The goal was to fix a bug. Not to change how they were in combat or traveling afaik.
dragon [11:59 PM] - FYI i had to fix a bug with fade blink speed, celerity was causing it to double the intended benefit.
Also,
Yeah they're not as viable as a turtling back into the game strat from what I saw yesterday. Takes a lot longer to take down hives/lifeforms. No more instant melting skulks, lerks, and structures. I'm not sure how it would work out as a direct strat though.
Another thing we were able to play around with a bit last night is early game babblers. Holy damn they're OP. You can basically straight line first engagement and win every time. On Veil, we gave babblers to two skulks at the very start and easily crushed Skylights with just the two of them.
Just something I would like to bring up since we've noticed it not too long ago.. Could we make it so that if a lifeform has babblers on them, they can still get their upgrades? Really doesn't matter if the babblers fall off at this point. Seemed kinda ridiculous as a lerk to have babblers on and not be able to get an upgrade because i had babblers on me. :)
Would it be possible to remove the LOS from powernodes? It's annoying if you're ambushing but accidentally touch the node so all marines know you're there, or if you're attempting to do a base rush and someone hits the node and reveals it.
Spookerz proved on numerous occasions that with the right teamwork, Exos weren't OP... but the issue is that in lower divisions, they WERE OP. So the changes increases the skill ceiling needed to play Exos to their full potential... meaning last minute comebacks by just rolling out exos against the unexpecting low skill teams are far less likely... I'm sure if your tactic is "rush exos" they will be just as effective if you can use them well.
Gorge speed was abused by many, and it WAS too fast. it may even still be too fast now, but its definitely better.
Ryssk, you may want to stop taking the balance changes personally... your "team" exposed imbalance... be proud, not angry.
So you mean the game should surround the low div gamers? Is this CS:GO where Revolver is being implemented?
Nah, the EXOS should have higher Pres cost.. Cause right now the Pres for them is waaay to low.. Its like if you die.. you dont care, cause within 1-2 minutes you can go Exo again.. Which is totally wrong.
This way you'll be more carefull with the Exo, the same way as you would be with an Onos, or any other lifeform or if you have bought a weapon from the armory.
+ Double-Rate fire on exos? Are you kidding with me? "Requires more tracking" With the current Hit-reg, which is somewhat okay-ish atm. The tracking would be an theoretical and practial 2.5x increase.
I've seen in so many gathers and PCWs/Officials with people hitting 8-12% with the Exos, now you want 4-6%?
The gorge speed isnt too fast, if you know how to play the lifeform, and you're really good with it.. should you be punished for it? Because one herpa derp player thinks "nah, im gonna stop and buy some burgers first on the way".
This game is becoming more and more single-playerish.. No need for teamwork almost.. heck.. throw out the comms while were at it.
And im not taking the balances personally at all, im just wondering where this stupid ideas are coming from.
Props to Dragon for fixing fades and other issues in compmod5 and please petition the fuck out of PDT/UWE to get these changes vanilla (mostly the lifeforms through fucking ceilings idiocy of a bug).
I agree, Pres is an issue... but if you change the Pres it makes rushing exos impossible altogether because people won't have the res for them... so you can either have them intended as a "rushable - tech" or you can have them as "ah crap, we lose without exos - tech".
To make them rushable, you need to nerf them a bit.
To make them a last action tech, you increase the Pres.
And again, the gorge WAS too fast... not just for low div play.
No, compmod isn't being focussed around low div play, it is and always has been focussed around trying to create a more balanced atmosphere. if imbalance is discovered it should be dealt with. the same as if bugs are found, they should be dealt with.
The thing is exos did need a small tweak...they were simply too cheap for what they offer. Now obviously the easy fix is to increase their cost, but I like that they decided to try another option out, the change essentially raises the skill floor of exos (i.e. you need to have decent aim to do well with them).
I think we should at least try these exos out and see how they feel, if they turn out to be garbage then further changes can be made, all I'm saying is give it a chance, they might be even better now in the hands of high skilled players, you never know.
As for gorges, I don't play gorge a lot, but from what I see it did seem like it was really easy for gorges to over commit on an engagement with their skulks, and if the engagement goes bad just bhop away without dying since marines are too slow to catch them. Again I don't play gorge much so I'm probably wrong, but just my 2 cents.
Alite, I doubt the exos will be better. An overall 20% damage nerf (because of change of damage type) on top of doubling the rate of fire and halving the damage. The spread is already large on exos and tracking with them was already not the easiest thing in the world, so I think this will essentially make it so they're not used anymore. I think a pres bump would've been a much better option. The only problem with exos before is that the death of one was not significant enough--most of the time marines could rebuy. Bumping to pres cost to 45 or even 50 would alleviate this problem and would mean if the aliens shut down an exo push, they would be in a great position rather than just the same one as before.
Try them out and we can bump the damage up if necessary. Heavy damage was making Exos really hard to balance.
@Ryssk I thought exos were pretty okayish before. There were about 20 other people telling me they had to be nerfed. And who the fuck cares about accuracy?
Gorge bhop may still be too fast, haven't gotten a chance to play around with it too much. The whole mechanic is supposed to help gorges stay with their team and get around the map, not go mach 5.
Before adjusting the damage numbers, why not use the movement changes dragon already coded to try to bolster exos back up as needed. The multi-direction booster gives you a way to dodge a few more bites and return more damage, but requires more skill to execute a dodge. I didn't play with it much so I have no idea just how skillful it really is. Is it too strong at a higher level of coordination?
Some of these exo changes were initially implemented on the pub-friendly version of comp mod, and hive pushes with exos were severely more difficult than before.
Ill just say this, if you cant make a post without trying to shit on the few people who actually still give a fuck about trying to fix things, you had better not post at all.
I could certainly see tightening up the minigun spread a bit to make it less retarded, especially now that the damage isn't in the WTF territory.
If the exos are made more expensive, then they become an all-in strategy.. and will never be used again like before. Vanilla exo's are more powerful than what was in R4, and they were never used in comp because of the costs.
Before exos got their res nerf no one used them, the high cost involved before just didn't make them viable, increasing their cost would do the same thing, people would achieve much more with JP/weapon combos than an exo. It has to keep its current cost to still be a considered option.
Now that they are no longer heavy damage maybe lowering the spread would help in dealing with lifeforms other than onos.
I found the issue before the nerf was exos would just win fights before they started, exos could win when being abushed by onos because their output was insane.
Onos shouldn't be losing fights to Exos in a 1on1 when the fight is initiated by an onos ambush. Down a hallway, sure, up close, only if the onos fucks up.
And im not sure what accuracy has to do with anything, your accuracy is only lower because you fire considerably more bullets at a higher rate, it doesn't mean your damage output is any different :/
Exos have been boring to play against due to their damage, Golden has never been alone in that, I was telling Golden they should be nerfed long before he went ahead with it. Infact, many people had issues with the way exos just rolled shit.
And this is exactly what all these changes do, they force more teamwork by making individuals not over powered, not sure what you're getting at by suggesting anything else is at play with the changes.
I like the damage reduction on exosuits, because all engagements revolving around exos happened WAY too fast before. Either aliens died WAY too fast, or exos die WAY too fast. Super fast engagements mean less opportunity for skill to be a factor.
I think, though, that since damage was reduced, something to increase survivability of an exo should have been put in. This basically makes the exo fights last a little longer.
Exos pop, you know after first engagement which team will win.
Get real dude. We had no problems with Exos in Week 2 against a much better team.
If you can't see how these changes are good from a neutral perspective and not based on any defeats or wins by Golden's past teams.. then you are delusional.
Even turts admits the speed is over the top.
Name someone better that has more experience and has been more involved in balance of NS2 and is actually competent at coding and willing to put in the work.
Every time Dragon comes in and is willing to make changes, you always get bitch posts like this. Really getting tired of seeing it. If you actually talk to the guy, he listens to your points and will actually consider what you have to say. It's not like he just poops out changes is unwilling to listen to feedback on the changes outside of "they are useless now".
Type out some legitimate feedback instead of this theoretical garbage on why you think the changes were made.
I see what you're saying and totally agree, but at this point since the changes are already made we might as well test them out, since who knows, they might actually end up being great with a bit more tweaking.
Competent and willing to put the work in i dont have any doubt that Dragon is fit for the job.
But when it comes to the suggestions and thoughts? Well then its a different level. These changes are not just well thought about, sure the exos needs a re-work with, but the current one that are suggested are not the best way.
As i said before, with the current Pres cost, it doesnt take long time until you can throw in a new exo on the field. The exo should be precious as the Onos, it's not something you just wanna throw out on the field and say "meeeh, i dont care if i loose it, i can just go again in a few secs".
Cause right now what's happening is that IF a team goes with 3 onos + a gorge against 2 exos and lets say one or 2 basic marines with a welder and lmg. How do you think that fight will be? One onos may loose his life if he doesnt play careful. Meanwhile the exos and the marines doesnt stand a chance.
What i want to say, the exos becomes pretty much useless, there's no way of pushing back lifeforms together with your teammates, what happens is that you have marines guarding the exos. The marines cant recap or cap without giving up a vital phasegate. Meanwhile the Alien comm can just cyst, build rts and bite rts.
The GL change is good, cause that's something even a blind kid could handle before.
If the fades are now lowered with speed from what i've heard, havent played it myself maybe bump up the speed on lerks? Or use less energy when using jump button with them?
You talk about not well thought out changes, and then want to buff lerks.
Clearly we have very different ideas on what is wrong with the balance.
I would be the first to admit I am quite out of touch with the current balance of NS2.. thats WHY any changes that I have made (which this revision includes the smallest subset of changes ever) have been extremely limited. 90% of it was about fixing 2 BUGS with the fade...
THIS is the EXACT reason WHY i scrapped the idea of trialing a 'massive' overhaul of balance... there are just too many people that are sticks in the mud. I don't know if its because they have some perceived impression that they are really high skilled (here's a hint, pretty much every NS2 player would be average skill in other games) and that they understand balance and meta perfectly, or they are just scared of change (looking at most other comp games I think change is what helps keep people INTERESTED long term)............ I don't even know what to say to this anymore...
Ok to troll a little less I think you don't give enough time for the teams to adapt. Currently NS2 has no meta (or just one....), no build order, no counter strat. The RTS elements of this game are at their lowest.
Why ? Because every new strat that popped up in the last 2 years were very quickly nerfed (see the example above) to a point where they weren't use anymore (or atleast you can't win game by comitting with them). It felt like all the new meta were nerfed the Blizzard way.
tbh, I'm all for a total overhaul... have been for a long time and I think I've made that pretty clear in other forum posts.
the game currently focusses WAY too much around the arms lab, those passive upgrades for marines make balancing so much harder than is needed... because it causes snowballs etc.
if you could remove passive upgrades from marines, and remove biomass scaling from aliens there would be a simpler set of base numbers... introducing new tech and balancing current tech would be FAR easier and lead to FAR more strategies.
but all of the changes made to Rev 5 are good. people are just too unwilling to change.
