Is there anybody here who could put together a small hotfix mod for the summer cup?

Something like:

- Fade cost increased to 45.
- Gorge cost increased to 10.
- Babblers removed.
- Umbra removed.
- Whips removed.

should help even things out a little at least. Of course the mod would have to be enforced in the tournament rules, but that's up to the admins.

Sounds nice, but a little late for the summer cup I'd say.

Its never too late!

45 for the fade should be enough.

Get real Fana, you know how players have different opinions about what setting was bad/mistuned in the previous balance patches that we've seen since the beta. Fourth reply and people already want changes made.

Also, I'm gonna necro a post you did about a year ago when I suggested a comp-mod:

"Speaking only for myself: I don't want a competitive mod. If the base game doesn't improve to the point where it is good enough to play on its own, I probably won't play it regardless."

I know that opinions may change, but you must be aware of what it is you're suggesting and what the reprocussions can, and most likely will be.

This is a temporary measure, unlike the permanency of a "competitive mod". If you can't see the difference, I don't know what to say.

Hopefully the 30th of august patch will rebalance the game, but until then it would be nice to have something to prevent mass alien ties in the cup.

That's not to say that I have much hope for this, but it's better to have tried and failed...

I wonder how many times we are gonna say "hopefully.. in the next patch".

Also the point really wasnt about a permanent competitive mod, but more about having to use a gameplay/balance mod at all. but i think you knew that.

I do agree with something having to be done with the balance though, and your changes might provide that band aid fix in time for the tournament.
But the game is still in a shitty place irregardless of balance.

Ok, just had a lengthy discussion with many people in TS.

Fact is, there is tons of different ideas on WHAT exactly to change IF we do such a summer cup mod. In the end it would be up to me to pick the best one I personally think will work the best since I will take all the blame for whatever happens with it.

Things from my standpoint so far:

1. I think most people (100% I talked with) find the current gameplay kinda boring, especially lower skilled teams which tend to be almost only alien ties. The pattern is easy early defence, wait to fadeplosion and win. If marines win, they do by turtling and slowly teching up while keeping lifeforms down as best as they can. 60min games sitting on 1-2 PGs with turrets fighting off umbra'd fadeballs. Didn't meet anyone yet who enjoys this repeating pattern.

2. I will not go for 2 separate games with different rulesets. If there will be a mod, it is just temporary (mainly for this cup). B252 will come and competitive play (especially Season 3) will stick with that.

3. This cup is no serious cup, no prizes nor big glory. So IF we want a change, it is just to have more teams enjoy this cup, players casters and viewers. Otherwise if it's >90% alien wins, people might lose interest. So it would be just for having people more fun and not just cater to top teams who actually can afford marine wins. I like that this suggestion actually comes from a top team itself which is one of the few teams out there managing marine wins.

4. The timeline for a decision is bloody short to put at best. Teams won't have much time to adapt for changes or learn bigger changes. IF there is a mod, it must be easy, simple changes nerfing aliens or buffing marines a bit (like OP as example). An easy change would be tweaking a number like pres cost, a complex change would be introducing a new system like upkeep cost.


So in the end I am struggling on what to do, opinions vary alot. Fact is, doing nothing will result in boring gameplay most people don't enjoy for this cup. But fact is also, that a mod so short before the cup will cause some drama. And last certain fact is, that whatever numbers I change, out of 10 people there is 10 different solutions on how to fix / what should have been changed instead. No matter how I decide, people will dislike. Easiest solution as admin would be do not do anything and put the blame to B251 and just wait for the patch. But I really want the teams (and casters and viewers) to ENJOY this cup. NSL is no serious MLG league, we do this work to ensure you guys have good and fun and as-best-as-possible run competitions to play in.


tl;dr:

Will decide tomorrow, need to sleep over it. I appreciate every feedback I can get up until then.

Gorge cost 8 and it's a Deal.

I've got my fingers crossed for:

Babblers 2nd hive ability
Umbra 2nd hive ability
More than 3 fades out requires 2hives (or some kind of Biomass to amount of fades thingy)

Just res cost raise would only prolong the defense and would do nothing to fadeplosion, except it will take couple more minutes. I like Bonkers suggestion, but without babblers. They are nice tactical advantage. But maybe +1 pers cost and +2 for gorge life form.

Babblers are easily the most retarded thing in the game right now, I know because I'm the babbler king, do not question mah authoritah. They take away the positional gameplay of the skulks completely and with w0 its pretty much impossible to solo a BABBLAH skulk, depending on the situation ofcourse.

I would be more than happy to see these little creatures from hell removed from the game, or delay their appearance in the game like Bonkers suggested.

How about simply nerfing the hp of the babblers?
I'm not a 100% sure, but don't they have like 50 hp right now? That's 5 bullets, about half of what it takes to actually kill the skulk.
What would happen if the babbler hp was changed to 20? Suddenly babblers would not seem so OP, but still a viable option in early game.

All in all, the games are starting tomorrow and I think it's a really bad idea to push a mod onto the cup with this timeframe.

A competent modder should be able to put the simple changes in the OP together in a few hours. This is very much a case of "where there's a will, there's a way".

That's not to say that the suggestions in the OP are the best, but they are simple and easy to implement. If we start arguing too much about what should be included, this will certainly never happen, as wiry pointed out earlier.

I largely agree with Fana's changes, and should they be the easiest to implement then lets do it. We could make it different later in the day - but really, if it can be done in time to release tomorrow lets do it.

You're not asking teams to learn much new with this - they are very simple changes.

Babblers had 30 hp last time I checked.
Its a cup for fun and a mod would make it more fun so its not a bad idea.

Play NS1

It's out.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=167865507

(Mod-ID: a016ca3)

Changes:

Balance.lua

kHarvesterCost = 8 => 12
kWhipCost = 10 => 20
kShotgunTechResearchCost = 20 => 10
kGorgeCost = 5 => 10
kGorgeEggCost = 7 => 15
kGorgeUpgradeCost = 2 => 0
kUmbraShotgunModifier = 0.64 => 0.75 (same as Bullet)
kBabblerCost = 1 => 3


BalanceHealth.lua

kSkulkHealth = 70 => 60
kBabblerHealth = 30 => 10
kBabblerArmor = 5 => 0


AlienTeam.lua

self.techTree:AddResearchNode(kTechId.Umbra, kTechId.BioMassThree, kTechId.None, kTechId.AllAliens)
=>
self.techTree:AddResearchNode(kTechId.Umbra, kTechId.BioMassFour, kTechId.None, kTechId.AllAliens)

(means umbra needs 2nd hive to research)

I can't really agree with changing skulk health, and 2nd hive requirement for umbra doesn't do much, but this mod should have a noticeable effect on balance, which is what we need.

Does this mean it's going to be enforced for all tournament games?

I like the changes, the skulk ones the only questionable one - but I hope people are happy to just give it a go and see.

Lets not cain it before trying it.

As everyone else, I think the skulk change is a bit odd because they don't have a melee advantage vs a 100hp0armor marine anymore (That's a very technical situation for them both to start shooting/biting simultaneously, but important)

In general, thanks so much for doing. I was really dreading having to play in the tournament after seeing how scrims were going the past couple weeks.

I'm now happy to be playing in the tournament again. See you guys out therre

kBabblerHealth = 30





AND YOU WERE WONDERING WHY THE GAME WAS BROKEN!?

RETARDS.

We were not.

OK I guess that's why there are multiple threads, filled with debate

Because this isn't the only reason, but that one doesn't really need a debate.

Dont feed the...wait maybe for sublime it could get better.